Exhibit #6,000,000 why women should not be educated nor allowed to have a position of authority in spiritual matters.
I love that she straight up admits that it wasn't any logic or convincing argument that pulled her astray, but simply an emotional concern over social approval and outsider perception. That's all it took for her to wander into heresy, according to her own words.
@Insomnolant maybe it's because I was raised Mormon that I have a bit more of a unique outlook on this. Their belief is that hell (outer darkness, as they call it) does exist, but the only way to go there is if you know for an absolute fact that God exists and you still deny it. They acknowledge that the vast majority of people will probably end up in the "terrestrial kingdom" which is more or less like earth but eternal, and some people will end up in the "telestial kingdom" which is a degree below but certainly not as bad as the typical depiction of hell.
That is to say, perhaps since I was raised that way, I think that if hell even exists, it's nigh impossible to actually go there. For various reasons. We also can't be the judge of who is saved or not, that's up to God.
@beardalaxy That's a nice fortress of copium you've constructed, but you would be far better served leaving your comfortable story you tell yourself and seeking truth in the Word of God and in prayer with your Heavenly Father.
@Insomnolant well I'm telling you what they believe, not necessarily what I believe. I'm just saying it might have influenced what I ended up believing ultimately and it's that I don't think the vast majority of people will go to hell, if a hell even exists at all beyond being a concept as a wayward soul detached from God, rather than a physical place.
There are a lot of interpretations of the Bible to the point where 3 entirely different major religions came from the old testament, and within those religions are many sects that also have their own interpretations. I think it's impossible to know for sure what the original intention was, especially because it's been changed. I personally believe some of the concept of hell was used as a way to scare people into submission from the Catholic church, and there is a decent amount of the modern interpretation of hell that comes from other, non-canon sources as well.
The foundational texts of Judaism as it is declared today were written later than each of the books in the Christian New testament and each of the books in Christian New testament were written later than each of the books in the Christian Old Testament according to "official" history sources
Now the books being combined into a single book of books was later then when they were originally written
Judaism was not based on the Old Testament
Islam is complicated
If there is a afterlife and people's free will to make bad decisions is not forcibly removed then there has to be something like a purgatory or Hell as long as people can continue to make decisions that harm themselves or others in the after life
The only way for there to be a heaven is to segregate out all the people that would choose to continue to make harmful decisions
This is not based on the text of any religious book but based on thinking things through
SHAWN MCCRANEY
used to have a live call in show from Salt Lake city Utah to discuss Mormonism
He wrote books including but not limited to "knife to a gunfight" and "born again Mormon"
He goes into great detail about problems with the Canonization of scripture in "knife to a gunfight" without saying that the Bible is a worthless book to read and it is a very useful book to understand different perspectives people have on interpreting the Bible
Was free online
1 Timothy 2:11-12
New International Version
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.
Footnotes
1 Timothy 2:11 Or wife; also in verse 12
1 Timothy 2:12 Or over her husband
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+timothy+2%3A11-12&version=NIV
34 Women[a] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[b]
Footnotes
1 Corinthians 14:34 Or peace. As in all the congregations of the Lord’s people, 34 women
1 Corinthians 14:35 In a few manuscripts these verses come after verse 40.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+corinthians+14%3A34-35&version=NIV
@shortstories @Insomnolant then Jesus comes around and saves a literal whore from being stoned, criticizing those who were attacking her. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I hope you understand what I mean without me having to spell it out in exhaustive terms lol. God's Grace is for everyone.
God's grace is for everyone, but not everyone will accept it. Jesus was very clear about that.
Matthew 19:23-26
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
@shortstories @Insomnolant I just kind of think it weird to know that God is omniscient and still would decide to permanently keep people out of heaven that maybe didn't make the best choices in life, although God knew they wouldn't. I think free will is part of the necessary human experience and that hell is of our own creation. An absence of God and absence of spirit that results in darkness and pain. But that's just me, I know there aren't many people that think the same way. I've never been a conventional person.
It is also nice to think that people who are sinners will be endlessly punished, but we don't even possess the capability to know who will and who won't go to hell. There are a practically infinite amount of variables. It seems a little self righteous to me, at various levels, so I don't entertain that channel of thought.
I think that, if there are people that go to hell, it would have to be people who were faced with the ultimate truth and knowing that God exists, and have the ultimate truth of His exact teachings, and still deny everything and continue on their malevolent ways. It is very likely we will never experience that.
It ultimately isn't super beneficial to argue about it though because nobody truly knows. We will only know when we die, and at that point we're either going to be faced with the eternity of our fate or the opportunity to accept the truth and change. No point in arguing over a detail such as whether hell exists or not when we're both going to be trying our best in our lives anyway, right? I just find it interesting to share beliefs like that every now and then.
God gives them all eternity to repent that is to change their attitude or ways or behavior patterns or whatever
As soon as they repent they are let right into heaven or paradise earth or whatever the good place is
They just never repent for all eternity as part of their own free will or perhaps everyone eventually repents and it is temporary like purgatory
But if unrepentant people are let in heaven they will torture each other and it becomes hell or purgatory
@shortstories @Insomnolant I am much more open to the idea of purgatory, a place where you are detached from God and without His spirit, and only once you properly repent (which requires action, some like to visualize it as steps you need to climb but I'm sure it could be anything) are you able to ascend into heaven. It is similar to my belief in hell as a concept, and a part of every human's existence that is required experience in order to ascend. Even Jesus had to experience something like this, despite not having sinned Himself, instead taking on all of our sins. That part to me though is why I don't think purgatory in the afterlife is as reasonable as a "hell of our own creation" on earth.
That's not exactly the same as the typical "hell" that people talk about though and I don't think it is really the idea that was originally being discussed, either. It's also, as far as I know, not canon and is at least partially an idea from Dante. So nobody can get on my case for having beliefs that aren't necessarily "conventional" if that's something they believe as well.
Most religious people of the Abrahamic variety seem to believe that unless you "know Christ" and repent of your sins on Earth, you'll be damned for all eternity. Some even think that if you don't take extra steps you'll be without God in the afterlife. I just don't think that's the case and it is a major reason why I left religion behind.
I dunno though, I don't have all the answers. At the end of the day all I can do is what I think is right and continue to pursue that to the best of my ability.
@beardalaxy @Insomnolant
Muhammad might have heard stories from different Jewish and Christian people and combined them with stories from people from other religious traditions he heard but could not read
He might have then scrambled everything together
He may have additionally added other things of his own or some people believe that a demon told him
He might have had some delusions
He met someone from the Church of the East -> Rejects God being a biological parent -> Nestorian history