Batons and synthetic pepper spray were used to repel hundreds of masked, black-clad vigilantes in Portsmouth on Sunday, it has emerged, as the policing minister said officers had been injured as they repelled organised “aggression”.
@kibcol1049 Don't keep us in suspense! Was it pro- or anti-immigration?
@h4890 Against illegal immigration and in particular the small boat crossings it seems. Apart from the extreme dangers of these, to the people on the boats and the rescuers, it occurred to me that the total cost to the UK must be huge. In order to pay for it I suppose some deserving UK citizen doesn’t get some help they need. That's just my opinion though.
@kibcol1049 The only two solutions I can think of are...
1. Sink the boats. Once immigrants realize this, they will go to the EU instead of risking this.
2. Deduct the money it costs to patrol and handle immigrants from foreign aid, and if that is not enough, play hardball and add the cost to exports to the country or region the immigrant comes from.
A 3 can of course be to lower the cost of handling them. That is, water and bread, no hotels, immediate shipment to rwanda,
@h4890 @kibcol1049
You think they have something better to do?
@h4890 @kibcol1049 interesting proposals. Could you elaborate on proposal 1?
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 Easy! Imagine that someone breaks into your home. In some countries you have the right to shoot them, or defend yourself.
This creates a psychological situation where people refrain from randomly breking into peoples homes, because they risk getting shot.
I say, let's do the same with the boats, after implementing a grace period. Boats that cannot identigy themselves and with a legal purpose, will be sunk.
Immigrants will be sent to rwanda. I bet this will
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 discourage a lot of people from trying to illegally enter the UK by boat.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 This will also discourage smugglers of immigrants to continue with their business, since they risk losing their boats.
Overall, a win/win for everyone!
@h4890 @kibcol1049 and where did you get the notion that gun ownership dissuades burglary? In the US, in 2024 alone there were 779,542 registered cases.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 I was talking about breaking into someones home, and the US has 300 million people in it. If there was no right to defend your home I can promise you that there would be more burglaries.
In fact, it is easy to experiment with this. Leave the door to your home open, post on facebook spreading this information, and then go on vacation for a month.
Most likely you will discover things missing from your home.
@h4890 @kibcol1049 lol. So, the UK Navy would, somehow, get a mandate to execute people assumed to be illegally trying to enter the UK. Effectively transforming immigration into a capital crime. No trial required. No burden of proof. And does that mean that the death penalty has been reinstated in the UK?
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 You could just describe what you mean intead of providing random links, but for the sake of this dialectic, I assume you are referring to the UK freedom fighters who are fighting for democracy and to improve their lives.
No, I was not there. But if I would like in the UK I probably would be. They deserve honor and glory!
UK and the EU has become an authoritarian socialist dictature. This is a very danerous development.
@h4890 @kibcol1049 you're hilarious. "Freedom fighters"? From the description, they're just after brown people.
@Disputatore @h4890 Not happening for sure. All the interviews I've seen with illegal immigrants, where they are willing to talk, say that they expect a better life here than their home or in the EU. That's why they come. Until that is changed it will continue.
@kibcol1049 @h4890 that's a good point. In the spirit of absurd proposals, a good way to dissuade illegal immigration would be massive campaigns in tiktok, X, and Instagram showing awful living conditions in the UK, maybe some Mad Max type scenarios. With the Aussie accent and all.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 I agree with this statement!
The reverse has been done by russia and other malicious states to use immigration as a weapon against europe. They have shown on social media, pictures of paradise and then helped the immigrants to the border.
So naturally, as you say, we should counter that high lighting all the negative aspect.
We should also forbid islam, islamic dress, we should forbid halal food and mosques, and make islam similar to national socialism.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 This will also push a lot of immigrants to hopefully move back. Also it will discourage moslems from moving to europe.
@h4890 @kibcol1049 I see. So when you were talking about freedom fighting back there, you meant the freedom to forbid other religions than your own. Interesting concept of freedom.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 No, I mean the freedom to live your life and not bowing down to fantasies. In rational societies, we call people who believe in unicorns, fantasy friends etc. insane, once they are no longer children. Just by changing the pink unicorn to an undefined "god" we all of a sudden deem them sane. This is very dangerous to society.
When it comes to religious freedom, everyone in europe is perfectly free to worship in the privacy of his own home. I have not argued against this
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 . I feel that you make the most uncharitable interpretations you can of my statements.
If a jew or a moslem, worhsips in his home, I have no quarrel with it.
If he wants to impose religious laws on my society, I send him home to his moslem society because he will obviously be happier there.
Likewise, we are free to put our penis in any type of hole, but that does not mean that I want to see your penis in public.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 If you do it in private, I have no quarrel with your penis.
The same logic applies. If you try to impose your penis on society, then you should be sent home.
@h4890 @kibcol1049 then you'll also have to forbid all other religions. Are you sure you're not the one believing in unicorns?
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 Again, I have not said anything about forbidding. What you do at home, go for it as long as you harm no one else.
Yes... in public, let us forbid al religion, if that enables us to get rid of islam, the most revile and revolting extremist ideology of today.
In fact, it could be argued that islam is not a religion, but an ideology, so we could logically ban islamd while keeping more sane forms of insanity. So that would of course be another option.
@h4890 @kibcol1049 I'll leave you to it then.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 Have we achieved a spiritual and harmonius meeting of the minds? =)
Wil you join me in our fight for freedom, to leave a better country for our children to inherit? =)
@h4890 @kibcol1049 no, we haven't. I find your ideas unacceptable and impossible to put into practice without creating a dystopian society where I would hate to live in. I just don't have the will to elaborate. Over and out.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 I'm sorry to hear that. If I would live in your city, I would invite your for a beer and use highly sophisticated arguments to try to make you see my side. Sadly this is not possible.
@kibcol1049 @Disputatore
Making life more difficult here will affect all of us.
The crisis is not that people are coming but that people are dying
#SafeRoutesSaveLives
@kibcol1049 @Disputatore I think, if they knew that their boats will be sunk, and they will be shipped to rwanda for exit-processing, that the attraction to the UK will drop significantly.
Sweden has seen a drop in immigration after tightening the immigration laws. I do not see a reason why this would not also hold in the UK?
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 Incorrect. You must carefully read and understand my posts. The UK navy would sink the boats. The immigrants can becollected and sent to rwanda. No one is executed. Also note that it is utterly ridiculous to portray it like you do. The immigrants will not just "happen" to appear in small boats. It is the result of a long planned effort. If the UK implements a grace period and communocates this law change, no one can be blamed for just accidentally immigrate with a boat.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 They know the law, and the conditions, and only have themselves to blame.
It is the same with breaking and entering someones home in more rational countries. yes, you can get shot, but you know that, and it is also very difficult to break into someones who by pure accident. It requires intent. Same here.
Now you see the feasibility of this idea.
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 I'm happy that I can bring joy to your day! 😎 
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@sam @h4890 @kibcol1049 this whole conversation about sinking boats is just silly. Currently, either they're caught trying to illegally cross the channel, or they're not. When they are caught, the boats are apprehended. Even when they are not caught, the dinghies are left on the beach. So those boats are always considered sunken cost by the gangs. Sinking the boats would be just stupid. It's not like the authorities return the boats to the gangs after apprehending them.
@Disputatore @sam @kibcol1049 They do represent some cost, I assume they are not paddling to the UK? Surely they have motors.
And as I said... repeated sinking and shipment to rwanda creates disincentives for both smugglers and immigrants. Naturally, if a smuggler is identified, he will go to jail in rwanda.
Add to that the termination of foreign aid, and potentially exit taxes, and the country of origin will also be affected economically to clean up their own mess.
@sam @Disputatore @kibcol1049 Won't work. They will just come back. Also, I have not argued to kill them. The idea is to sink the boat, therefore causing economic harm to smugglers. The immigrants are then picked up, and sent to an exit-processing center in rwanda. This causes loss of time for the immigrants, which makes them think again before trying.
but surely there is an increased risk of people dying from the sinking of a boat full of immigrants? Unless the boat is sunk at the docks/shore before or after?
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@sam @Disputatore @kibcol1049 True, but this risk is not unknown, and if this risk is not acceptable to an illegal immigrant, they will illegally immigrate to other countries where the risk is lower.
As per my earlier post, this new policy will be spread to embassies through out the world, social media, and other channels.
Then no one can claim ignorance. After all, it is your responsibility to follow the law in the countries you travel to.
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@sam @Disputatore @kibcol1049 Again, I have not argued for killing. Sink the boat, capture the immigrants, send to rwanda for exit-processing.
Is reading english difficult for you? If so, let me know whta you do not understand, and I will try to express it in a simpler way.
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@sam @h4890 @Disputatore Please remove me from any further toots on this thread, it's taken a turn I don't want to be involved with.
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@h4890 @kibcol1049 wouldn't proposal 2 mean that you would be punishing the British companies exporting to those countries? How would that help with foreign nationals wanting to migrate to the UK? Can you explain the rationale?
@Disputatore @kibcol1049 Cutting foreign aid does not punish british companies. Adding an export tax does, sadly, punish the companies to a certain extent, but it also punishes the countries who use immigrants as a weapon. So the countries will first of all, get no aid, second of all, more expensive british goods and services. But this is nothing new. Taxes already exist and hurt companies and individuals, but we think the trade off is worht it. The same goes for this scenario.
@h4890 @kibcol1049 Two much cheaper alternatives to "stop the boats":
(1) Send someone to Calais to hand out ferry tickets. This will cost peanuts.
(2) #RejoinEU . This will *make* billions.
@TimWardCam @kibcol1049 Small boat crossings started in 2018, and has grown since then. This is a trend that is unrelated to brexit.
If you have a nation, protecting your borders is just part of the package, and that you need to do as an island nation regardless of if the EU exists or not.
Also note that before the boat crossings, the preferred means was trucks, ferries and the Channel Tunnel.
@kibcol1049 @TimWardCam Blaming brexit for this is nonsense. This is a trend that UK politicians have known about, yet have done nothing about. I consider it an example of a lack of political leadership, rather than an effect of brexit, since the trend started before brexit, and grew up to ,and past brexit.
@TimWardCam @kibcol1049 This is incorrect. Immigrants from 3:rd world countries are a huge net loss. This has been proven many times, and most recently a government authority in sweden came to this conclusion. Immigration from western countries can benefit the economy.
Keep in mind that this includes crime, rape, killings, added pressure on police, as well as moslems taking over parts of society.
The EU is a socialist dictature, but in time, it will crash like all socialist dictatures.
@kibcol1049 etc. After all, there are only so many times an illegal immigrant will want to waste time immigrating, only to be shipped to rwanda to start again.