The issue is of the 'comfortable retirement' is likely to grow as many people see it recede into a delayed end to their working lives.
But as Helen McCarthy notes at least there's no real Q. that its a right any longer, now we have try to figure out how to side-step the diversion of inter-generational conflict (pushed by some) to focus on how everyone can retire into a comfortable third age!
@ChrisMayLA6 Retirement, as perceived in western europe, is a classic, socialist welfare construction, and as such, one that will (is, rather) fail. It is a pyramid scheme, where the problems are pushed on to the next generation, and it is paid for by other peoples money. It is based on the assumptions of an ever growing population, of cultural and ethnic homogeneity and shared values.
All of the foundations no longer hold.
@ChrisMayLA6
The answer is very easy and has been staring us in the face for a long time. It is libertarianism. Everyone pays for his own retirement and retires when he wants and can afford it. It really is as simple as that.
To prove it, just take the payroll taxes paid, and apply that to an index fund from when the person starts to work, assume 7% growth over 40 years, and you will be surprised at how much money has accumulated.
@ChrisMayLA6 Add to that, that the person can contribute by saving in excess of that pushing the total even higher.
This wold solve 99% of all pension problems, and the best is probably to start phasing it in as we speak.
But of course in an unequal society (maintained via political structures) that merely reserves retirement to the (relatively) wealthy....
@ChrisMayLA6 I think the mistake here is the concept of "retirement". The idea that anyone should be able to live and do nothing of value, financed by other peoples money, is incredibly destructive.
I would instead argue, that what it does, is that it enables more people to retire early, and ethically, since they would pay for themselves.
I also think that if this system was followed, the concept of retirement would disappear, and instead we would think about doing what we want to do, when
@ChrisMayLA6 we can afford it. It would also create a strong incentive to plan ones life and to become more long term in ones thinking. All of society would benefit from this.
The retirement dream, infatilizes people, and keeps them from taking control of their own lives.
@ChrisMayLA6 This is a good point, and partly what I meant. I also thought of working part time, and not going from 100% to 0% at work, but easing into retirement, based on enregy levels and interest, over several years, or decades even.
But this is not my view of what retirement is like for some (many?). Many people identify with their jobs, and when going from 100% to 0% they lose their identity. Some even die. It could be argued that this is by design, because people working and being taxed
@ChrisMayLA6 all their lives, only to die on the day of retirement, is an enormously profitable business for hte government.
yes, my father refused to retire on the basis of what had happened to his grandfather (dead about a year after retiring), but in the end he then worked himself to death.... for many retirees, there is now the opportunity of balancing leisure with some form of work (often in the UK because pensions are not really high enough for many to give them a really comfortable retirement without some form of work)... but I also agree on the issue of identity & work; here retirement can be grim
@ChrisMayLA6 But is that something we should be teaching our young in schools? Positive psychology and how to lie a balanced and fulfilling life?
Or would that be detrimental to todays ruling class who is dependent on being financed by workers working until they are 59-72 (depending on where in europe you live)?
It seems to me that the government benefits from indoctrinating the population in the wonders of working hard for life, only to then die.
Completely agree; one of the things that I ofd most depressing about my 25 years in academia was the re-balancing away from a humanistic idea of the point of education to a wholly instrumental (career-related) focus....
@ChrisMayLA6 It is very interesting to ponder why we threw the humanistic and enlightenment ideals away. Would it be too powerful an ideal that would seriously threaten the balance of power? Do the political leaders, regardless of color, want to keep the masses ignorant?
I try to sneak philosophy in by the back door when I teach technology. Ethical issues around surveillance and control easily are weaved into the course material!
Certainly in the UK there is a relatively widespread suspicion that the political class have little interest in ensuring workers are educated for anything other than work
@ChrisMayLA6 Do you have the concept of study circles in the UK to increase the general level of education among the population?
Not really, I have occasionally over the years heard of such things but never actually experienced them, nor been invited to one....
@ChrisMayLA6 I see. Well, maybe the time for them is past. In sweden, they have been abused recently by crime gangs and extremist moslems to extract money from the government under hte disguise of learning.
Aha, there is certainly no state support for such things that I am aware of in the UK... the nearest would be some of the voluntary reading groups run by political campaigns, but these are more interested in recruiting new followers than amore general humanistic educative strategy (I think)
@ChrisMayLA6 That's a shame. The idea, in principle, is good. It's a decentralized way of educating yourself, that sits to the side of the formal educational system. I like it! Sad that, as always, good ideas are so easily exploited by criminals.
Agreed; it *is* a great bottom-up educative strategy - that said, it may be more common than I am aware of over here
@ChrisMayLA6 That would be an interesting discovery! That, perhaps, absent government support, there might be an informal kind of study circle education going on!
@h4890
For those with 'comfortable' retirement this also often includes social care (both of grandchildren & other dependents) as well as contorting to society through a range of activities from volunteering to cultural contributions - so I would say that for many (but of course not all), retirement from a formal job does not mean the end of social contributions at all