@rohrkrepierer @philosophy

Lol. It makes me laugh when you materialist nihilists reach this point and call it "Jesus Fascism".

What happened, the Will to Power journey harder than you thought? Even Nietzsche had more respect for Christianity than that, and that's counting that he didn't really know about the Orthodox concept of theosis, or Orthodoxy in general.

Asceticism isn't exactly a family activity, & "freedom" is not only vague, but repulsive to the majority.

So Buddhism amirite?

@UncleIroh @rohrkrepierer I don't get why you're calling me a materialist nihilist. Can you explain what that means to you? I don't see myself as materialist or nihilist.

No, I was never on board with Nietzsche and Will to Power. My avatar is Schopenhauer ffs.

The answer IS asceticism...the self seeking its highest good through denial of itself in seeking for God. Doesn't matter if it's compatible with everyday "family" life (it is, just harder in that setting). It just is the answer.

@philosophy @rohrkrepierer

>Doesn't matter if it's compatible with everyday "family" life

Again, lol. Socially, it has to otherwise it's clearly not "the answer".

Reach the major milestones in life first - get married, start a family, develop a career, be known in your community - and then tallk to me about how compatible asceitism is with that, because if you can't then it's of no fucking use.

All the Orthodox Abrahamic religions have solved this by incorporating elements of asceticism.

@UncleIroh @rohrkrepierer There's no answer socially. People have to work this out for themselves. Your theosis is between you and God, and it's not a matter of a specific religion either...which is just an aesthetic for the process of unselfing.

Christianity is a fine path when it's understood properly. Paul didn't even understand it though. He thought it was about Jesus not having original sin because the belief of the day was that the soul was transmitted through the father's side. All wrong

@UncleIroh @rohrkrepierer Theosis IS the path, at least until unity. The next step is complete dropping of the self, not just the will. The character of Jesus was never the point...he's just the example of a fully human person who becomes non-person through thr hypostatic Oneness. And we all have the same destiny! That's the real bugger.

But this is theology way outside the Jesus Cult understanding of the process.

@philosophy @rohrkrepierer

The entire reason for Christianity's unparalleled global success has been that it is accessible, understandable and compatible with every level of cognition and all stations of life.

From the clinical idiot to the genius. Children, parents, ascetic monks, warriors.

Theosis is the answer and YOUR route is to monk it out. But the pro-social route in Orthodoxy is to onboard the concept from within families, learn through the Church and be supported in that journey.

@UncleIroh @rohrkrepierer This is the real thing I struggle with...the cognitive level.

I think this is the edge of my own ego. I want to speak truth and have it accessible to everyone...and anyone who believes the nonsense due to cognitive load I want to just call an idiot and condemn them.

I want to say "I need to look at this" but I just did. I need to give it up now. I think you might be right on this point and I see the point of it.

@philosophy @rohrkrepierer

> As soon as other people are involved, negotiations must occur and the will becomes involved. It's in silence that God is inevitably found.

This is the crux of the paradox.

Granted, monks in all faiths attest to the truth that the fastest & perhaps purest route to God is through silent asceticism.

And yet Monkhood is deeply social since it can only survive through others, can only be practised through negotiation with others.

And from this flows many things.

@philosophy @rohrkrepierer

Ideally, the energy you have for wanting to understand these things would have been recognized by elders with the same broad interest. You would have been directed towards a path that allows you to explore those things in depth.

And if the result was you spending 20 years in a cave, I suspect that your revelations would include lots of gratitude, compassion for others, and love. For ourselves and the messes we make of everything.

Even though everyone is retarded.

@UncleIroh @rohrkrepierer As if. I grew up in an apatheist (apathetic theist) family and all my early exposure to Christianity was through Baptists and Pentacostals, both of which are well into the retarded and incredibly wrong side of things. I spent my teenage years squarely in the materialist intellectual camp until I started to see the issues there. Now I belong to noone but the Truth. I've been obsessed with Truth since I was 12 years old.

@philosophy @rohrkrepierer

Makes more sense now in light of the Baptist thing. Personally, I consider Roman Catholicism and Protestantism Christian heresies.

You might like John Vervaeke's Meaning Crisis series. It's relevant that he also came from a Baptist background because it drove him deep into philosophy for much the same reasons as you.

Interestingly enough, his journey has all the signs of him making peace with Christianity through his recent conversations with an Orthodox bishop.

@UncleIroh @rohrkrepierer I consider all extant Christianity heresies, but Protestants certainly worse. Catholics messed up with introducing the "persona" as their explanation of the hypostatic union. Eastern Orthodoxy is workable though. Most Christianity today derives from St. Paul and the Alexandrian School. Paul, despite trying to show folks Christianity is not just for Jews, completely misinterpreted what the Christ is. Even Jesus misunderstood it. Only the risen non-person understood.

@philosophy @rohrkrepierer

The Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches are the true churches. Always have been.

@UncleIroh @rohrkrepierer And even they are heretical though. They all affirm that the man Jesus of Nazareth is the one and only God, like Egyptians believed about the Pharaoh or Shinto about the Emperor...which is just anthropotheistic paganism.

But this isn't the case. Jesus was a human person, first in unity with God and then after the resurrection...a non-person, devoid of Self, the same as a Buddha...in Hypostatic Oneness with God. An excellent example of perfect faith.