@Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta @shortstories @GoonPatrol @multiversal_gangstalker What about Liberation Theology though?

Judeochristianity the bside.
There's a reason it only (kinda) worked on brown mutts in the new world but nowhere else.

@Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta @shortstories @GoonPatrol @multiversal_gangstalker Judeochristianity worry is probably why some of these movements went the secular route (even if later reversing some of those policies) IMO.

marxism is an inherently atheistic religion

@multiversal_gangstalker @shortstories @GoonPatrol @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Yeah, especially ML types. However it is important to also get to the essence of some of these things. Religion has often been used by the powers that be to enforce the status quo. I don't know if people really would argue that this is always false. However Marx wasn't really obsessed with "proving god doesn't exist" as you'd expect a Atheist to:

Some scholars classify Marx not as a typical "atheist" who is obsessed with proving God doesn't exist, but as a "post-theist" who viewed god-worship as an obsolete stage of history.

it's also a part of the materialist horseshit baked into marxism

@multiversal_gangstalker @shortstories @GoonPatrol @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta Well I "get it" in the sense that you don't really "need" religion to operate a economic and political system. However, I think some of the historical arguments on atheism are a bit dated.

Historical materialism likes to basically think of itself as a science. However, science is neither atheist nor theist in nature. To claim god exists or doesn't exist is a immaterial question. You would first have to define god (something that is probably impossible in a diverse society) and find ways of measuring if god exists or not. These are not scientific questions so therefore it would be a mistake for a modern Marxist to claim to be either atheist or a theist if they are trying to be true to their principles. I think part of this is that atheism meant something a little different before than it does today. More on this here:

@multiversal_gangstalker @GoonPatrol @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta @shortstories

Lack of belief is agnosticism, not atheism.

Agnosticism is a lack of certainty, atheism is a lack of belief.

I don’t see how “atheism” is “lack of belief“ - as the word clearly means “not-God-ism”.

Most atheists actually believe in God; they just hate him. They never rail against Allah, Buddha, Lord Ganesh, etc... but they've got plenty of venom for Yahweh & Jesus Christ.

I think "American Christianity" has had a lot to do with that problem.

While I’m no Protestant, the general “tone and timbre” of American Christianity, while starkly divided, was actually doing pretty darn bangin at ordering societies up until the 20th Century

It's fundamentalism. There was at least some understanding that religion and science could reasonably coexist with accomodation, and then the Red Scare happened, the Dulles brothers got the bright idea to weaponize religion, and we've been in backslide ever since.

People don't want to listen to it man.

Even when explaining the Jews - the Jews WROTE THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Do you not think it's reasonable to ask where they got this information and how they decided upon it?

But they never look into how the Jews do things. And consider it all "divine" when it's not. It was a bunch of Jews sitting around arguing until they all decided someone had won the argument. The entire jewish religion starts out with Abraham arguing with god and "winning the argument".

This is the basis for their whole religion - this is your old testament. It has nothing to do with divine beings from the sky.

Even if it were true that the OT were ahistorical (a claim I highly doubt), it misses the point entirely.

The OT was written centuries before the Incarnation of Christ, and was positively stuffed with Messianic Prophecy that wasn’t fulfilled until hundreds of years after all the authors had died. No merely-human agency at any level could possibly pull that off. That’s its actual significance

Of course it can be pulled off.

That's like saying "That last domino can't possible fall just because someone pushes over the first domino."

That’s not at all what it’s like; nobody human could possibly have steered events like the God-Man being born in a specific town, to a specific virgin. One doesn’t get to decide things like that about their own birth.

Yeah, they did, because these are narratives being presented within the context of things the narrators could not have witnessed.

Yeah I don’t know what to tell you. Shepherds and peasants and fishermen don’t really have a lot of ability to steer the sorts of narratives that rulers pay to have written down

That would presuppose the lack of a pre-existing oral tradition, which given that the apostles are mostly working-class illiterates, would dismantle the concept of apostolic tradition. I'll trust that's not what you meant to do, because that would be blasphemy to Orthodoxy.

Pretty sure we’re talking past each other; I’m referring to OT Messianic Prophecy

Which came from a bunch of Kabbalah Jews - which 'word for word' come out of the Torah.

So you might want to get interested in how they decided what was in the Torah, and what they mean by "God"

I’m not sure I understand why you’re claiming to know so much about “Kabbalah” being sourced “word-for-word” from the “Torah”. Are you an authority on jewish mysticism ?

I never said that, reread it.

I called them "Kabbalah Jews"

I didn't say it was sourced from the torah, I said the OT was.

And I'm reasonably well versed in some of the Kabbalah, enough to know it's a system, and that yeah, you can engineer systems to fall like dominos as you see fit.

So if the OT was sourced from the Jews, you might want to work out how they came about those things. And it was because of the arguments the rabbis use to do everything they do.

This is a fun discussion and I’ll get back to it when I get the chance; not blowing it off or anything 😆

No never talk to me or my son again.

So please set me straight if I’m missing something. You’re arguing roughly that:

The Messianic Prophecies of the OT are an elaborate, kabbalistic sort of shell-game, with the Gospel writers penning their “fulfillment” in a largely fictional account around a man being called “Jesus Christ”.

That this was the ultimate aim of the writers of the specific Prophecies - to which they employed many tricks and puns in order to project their intention centuries into the future, where they figured they’d be “unlocked”.

Am I missing anything here ?

I don't know about the bible itself - probably so - I know writing can manifest these things in people.

However, through Kabbalah you can harness energy in particular ways to use to manipulate people, yes. And the Kabbalah is itself a macrocosmic system of logic as well.

This is where you get your Nostradamus's, etc. It's not magical, it's logical.

Like, in retrospect, if we created electricity, would AI become the logical conclusion?

Keep in mind they created the movie Metropolis (with the thinking robot) back in the early 1900's. Is this not a logical conclusion we could surmise from actions taken in the past?

Kabbalah is the same thing but on a very human level. I'm sure there's tonnes of it I know little about, but that's the way it is supposed to work.

Okay, I’m not going to deny any of that, at all. I’m totally open to the possibility that Isaiah, say, was “forecasting” certain things through “kabbalistic” word-and-number play - which the Gospel Writers seven-hundred or so years later “decoded” - illuminating them as to how properly to ”fulfil the Prophecy” with their fictional account of the God-Man Jesus Christ. Sure, why not ?

So, by now, because it’s already been “decoded”, it should be pretty easy to find a few examples, right ? Do you happen to know of any ? Sincere question: what was the specific forecast and how was it fulfilled ?

Surely there must be many of these. In fact I know of a few off the top of my head.

It's not just word and number play.

It is in some ways - very biblical.

God is within you and all around you. <- it takes this very seriously.

If god is logic, why not do the logic inside yourself? This is the root of Kabbalah.

It's not some devil worship or something. I wouldn't suggest that kind of thing.

It's certainly not Christian - I'll give you that. But this is also why I had a rant the other week about my suspicious nature of Hitler and was talking about inflection points - I'm talking about the logic of it all.

@thefinn @Sovereign @zeke @GoonPatrol @James_Dixon @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta @KingOfWhiteAmerica @multiversal_gangstalker @thatfightnerd

Numerology is not logical for physics and chemistry predictions

Numerology does not enable you to understand what will happen based on physics

Numerology is a language to send secret messages to specific individuals that know the code without the rest of the public that sees the message understanding the intended meaning

Yeah I've never gotten into numerology.

@thefinn @Sovereign @zeke @GoonPatrol @James_Dixon @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta @KingOfWhiteAmerica @multiversal_gangstalker @thatfightnerd

How can you claim to know so much about the Kabballah but so little about numerology

Are you telling me the Kabballah is nkt full of numerology

I don't DO Kabbalah, but I've been a victim of it, and read up on it and understand both from being a target and what I've read on it.

I don't practice it.

@thefinn @shortstories @Sovereign @zeke @GoonPatrol @James_Dixon @Kalogerosstilitis2RevengeoftheJunta @KingOfWhiteAmerica @multiversal_gangstalker @thatfightnerd

What would anyone "do" with it? Isn't it just some kind of jewish mysticism?

Why don't you use one of the search engines or AI's or plethora of websites to look that up.