Aren't you ignoring withholdings?
The IRS is the biggest wage thief. It even requires the employers to steal on their behalf.
A self-employed person could simply not pay payroll taxes for example, and have use of that money until they decided to pay, if at all, a W-2 cannot avoid it.
Similarly, a W-2 can only avoid income tax withholding if they had no tax liability in the previous year and no expectation of such a liability in the current year. Again, a self-employed person could simply not pay the tax, including via quarterlies, and have use of the money.
Tl;dr you're a clown for looking at the employer and not your government.
The IRS is the biggest wage thief. It even requires the employers to steal on their behalf.
A self-employed person could simply not pay payroll taxes for example, and have use of that money until they decided to pay, if at all, a W-2 cannot avoid it.
Similarly, a W-2 can only avoid income tax withholding if they had no tax liability in the previous year and no expectation of such a liability in the current year. Again, a self-employed person could simply not pay the tax, including via quarterlies, and have use of the money.
Tl;dr you're a clown for looking at the employer and not your government.
You've also make the mistake of assuming that the employer would pay more if every violation were avoided. Most likely, wages would just be adjusted to account for the cost of labor. Basically, you're inventing money ex nihilo by using a static model to represent a dynamic system.
@Humpleupagus
> unpaid work is fine akshually cuz the employers would just pay them less.
It's not unpaid. That's your mistake. You fail to grasp the dynamics of economic systems. Value will adjust if all transgressions are avoided. It will move downward because the same money supply will have to buy more labor. If labor is measured in hours, this means hourlies will decrease, but the employee will get more hours of pay. The net benefit to the employee will be zero.
@Humpleupagus
> I rent a commodity for 8 hours, but I actually use it for 10. This is fair because if I didn't the market price would adjust, lowering the price per hour
What I want you to do is show me where the employee transfered $500 of lost overtime to the employer, and don't point to a statute, contract, or the intrinsic value of labor. Show me the "money" that was stolen. You can't.
And regarding your example, the market value would include the transgression. I don't know how better to explain it. Maybe xeno could.
@Xenophon
@Xenophon
His chart is lile 45 billion im a 25 trillion economy where payroll tax is lile 1 trillion...
I cant roll my eyes harder
I cant roll my eyes harder
Plus, she's using a theory of legal damages to establish actual theft. There's a huge difference between me stealing your actual car and a legislature saying that you would have had a car but for my legal transgression, which was not stealing an actual car.
The former is a factual matter, the later only needs to be supported by a legal policy with a "rational basis," which is hardly a real constitutional legal standard at all and doesn't necessarily reflect anything but the declarations of the regime in power.
The former is a factual matter, the later only needs to be supported by a legal policy with a "rational basis," which is hardly a real constitutional legal standard at all and doesn't necessarily reflect anything but the declarations of the regime in power.
@Humpleupagus @Xenophon @moffintosh Ah I have you now goyim look here here would be no theft in communism though, you need to own property for that. It just works- karl marx
Honestly I believe lenin was like the todd howard of his time
Honestly I believe lenin was like the todd howard of his time
I just think the issues are far more complex than the simpleton math that OP attempts to sell. The issue lies at the intersection of many legal theories and rules, culture, and the natural flow of economic markets and systems.
One thing I note here is something I saw with a lot of my classmates as we approached graduation, and that's that many believed that they had to work for someone, for a firm. It didn't even occur to them that they could work for themselves. Mental slaves.
I of course sat down and did some very simple math — "I'm poor as fuck. If I get my license, I can make charge $xxx.xx an hour starting. If I work four hours a month (and collect on it), I can pay rent on a small apartment. If I work another four, I can buy groceries. And so on. I just need to put up an advert and get a one or two clients a month to start."
I didn't have any "profit" my first five years, and there were period were I had employees, and there were times when I loaned money in to make payroll until I collect that "big check" from client X. Cash flow isn't always fluid. I didn't see the employees chipping in their dime or taking a pay cut to help out. Everyone's a communist until they have to pay to keep the business running.
One thing I note here is something I saw with a lot of my classmates as we approached graduation, and that's that many believed that they had to work for someone, for a firm. It didn't even occur to them that they could work for themselves. Mental slaves.
I of course sat down and did some very simple math — "I'm poor as fuck. If I get my license, I can make charge $xxx.xx an hour starting. If I work four hours a month (and collect on it), I can pay rent on a small apartment. If I work another four, I can buy groceries. And so on. I just need to put up an advert and get a one or two clients a month to start."
I didn't have any "profit" my first five years, and there were period were I had employees, and there were times when I loaned money in to make payroll until I collect that "big check" from client X. Cash flow isn't always fluid. I didn't see the employees chipping in their dime or taking a pay cut to help out. Everyone's a communist until they have to pay to keep the business running.
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@Humpleupagus @moffintosh @Xenophon @MasterSimper >Everyone's a communist until they have to pay to keep the business running.
Far too many communists just assume businesses are automatically profitable and constantly flush with excess money like Scrooge McDuck. But that is to be expected when most communists are just envious rather than truly principled.
Either that or they want the business to pay wages by distributing rights to collect and/or sue upon accounts recievable to the employee.