@dave @sam @NEETzsche @polarisera you are playing word-games. Feminism is not about "equally deserving of human rights and dignity". Children are deserving of human rights and dignity, and yet are not equal to adults, nor deserving of legal rights and status to adults.

Now, to circle back to the topic at hand: if we want to live in reality then Feminism in its entirety is a lie. If we want to live in the world of feelings and fantasy then TERFs are bigots and on "the wrong side of history".

Cognitively, women are nearly the same as men. They might have different preferences than men, but when it comes to executive function and logical reasoning, they're basically the same. There's no gap there that justifies limiting their human rights.

@dave @sam @NEETzsche @polarisera rights are not based on cognition, but responsibility.

Women are not even responsible in nature, but rely on men to protect and provide for them.

Feminism used government to extract male utility and resources in exchange for votes rather than sex and children, but they are no less dependent and no more responsible.

If you disagree, show me a functional society of women that don't require men whatsoever. They are either myths or scams to attract western donors

@dave @sam @NEETzsche @Tfmonkey @polarisera The problem with statements like these is how people conflate what “human rights and dignity” are. It’s such a womanly-worded axiom what can be conflated to anything, case in point…

“It’s my HUMAN RIGHT to kill my children, to say otherwise to is to remove my DIGNITY”
“It’s my HUMAN RIGHT to go to work and neglect my children and household, to say otherwise is to remove my DIGNITY”
“It’s my HUMAN RIGHT to take half or more of the income, the house, and the children despite the fact that I (on average) earn more per hour; I just work less. To say otherwise is to remove my DIGNITY”
“It’s my HUMAN RIGHT to fuck whomever and however many cocks I want and fuck up the responsibility of raising a family and stable household, to say otherwise is to remove my DIGNITY”
“It’s my HUMAN RIGHT to not live up to social decency and decorum as to how I should dress in a certain settings, to say otherwise is to remove my DIGNITY”

@Nocturn_Adrift @sam @dave @NEETzsche @Tfmonkey https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-30040790

I'm well aware of how words are used to frame a debate in terms favorable to your positions, but frankly you're doing the same thing right now. It's a common feature of debate.

@dave @sam @NEETzsche @Tfmonkey @polarisera The easy solution is to and answer to what I responded with is to question why people by default are entitled to “human rights” and “dignity”. Most of the time discussion surrounding these two things involve giving people something that they did not earn.

For example, to have rights functionally by an enforcement body, when it comes down to it, involves a tribute of material goods to that enforcement body (taxation). Being a citizen involves actually doing things in civic service to some degree and capacity. In this case, no matter what theoretical feel-good axiom that’s presented about how we simply are just “given” these rights is hooey. Same can go for “dignity”.

These things (“human rights”, “dignity”) are really earned, are a privilege you enjoy and can be taken away. What I am saying, and what be extension the person you originally responded to would agree with (a big stretch, I know) is that feminism and other true liberal movements reject reality and the consequences of this are quite obvious as these ideas are tested against it. To continue drinking the cool-aide about talking points regarding liberalism, using the frame of liberalism to discuss socio-economic issues, will continue to be a disservice to debate and all things “systematic”, or to “society”.

@Nocturn_Adrift @sam @dave @NEETzsche @polarisera You are correct. We are arguing over an abstraction. My point here was merely to cut through the nonsense and reveal the ultimate choice.

We can choose to live in a society based on reality, or we can choose to live in a society based on feelings and fantasies.

If we choose reality, then Feminism loses, because it is based entirely on feelings and fantasy.

If we choose feelings and fantasy, feminism loses, because trannies are "real women" too

@Tfmonkey @Nocturn_Adrift @sam @dave @NEETzsche frequentist statistics and p-values are based on feelings.

@Nocturn_Adrift @dave @sam @NEETzsche @Tfmonkey @polarisera Human rights summed up: non-violent, non-threatening persons’ freedom from violence.