shortstories

@white_male @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @BowsacNoodle

Useful & Rare = More Valuable

Rare & not useful = Not Valuable

Common & not useful = Not Valuable

Blockchain money, paper money & electronic money are not valuable

The only value in paper & electronic money is paying taxes as a token to avoid going to jail

Without taxes paper & electronic money has no use and therefore nno valuee

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white_male
@shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @BowsacNoodle >Blockchain money, paper money & electronic money are not valuable
Valuable for their usefulness.
>The only value in paper & electronic money is paying taxes
That's just retarded. Fiat usefullness is in abstracting cost from barter. How the fuck are you going to implement factories that need thousands of different material inputs?
>Without taxes paper & electronic money has no use
Abstracted value transfer. Also enables accumulation of wealth for large projects.
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shortstories

@white_male @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @BowsacNoodle

You pay factory workers in Asia manufacturing electronic goids in bags of rice

They can trade rice for electronic goods they want to purchase or they can eat it

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white_male
@shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @BowsacNoodle Cool, cool, now exchange rice for chemicals and other stuff that's worth between 1000:1 and 100:1 in weight to rice. Do it for hundred items. Said factory would gather all the rice, rising it's price and effectively making rice the fiat currency, the new gold.
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shortstories

@white_male @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @BowsacNoodle

I do not have a problem with gold because you can make tools to use out of gold

If you take a gold coin and change the words and numbers printed on it but it has the same mass it is worth the same amount

If you change the words and numbers printed on paper money but it has the same mass then it's value changes

Does the ink or the paper make it valuable. Is it worth more if more ink is printed on the same paper to make the number bigger?

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Thanksgiving Noodle
@shortstories @white_male @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW The piece of paper isn't the value. it's the promise of value enforced by the state. you're trading in strength of the government (stability, current and future prospects / GDP, threat of imprisonment and ability to enforce said threats, etc.) when you use fiat. This is known. The question of whether or not that OUGHT TO be valid is not the same as whether or not IT IS valid today. You're missing the is/ought distinction IMO.
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Zeb 摆烂

@BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
Guys, you gotta brush out on the history of fiat money. Originally it was a simple securities contract (certificate of deposit) of a determined amount of gold/silver.
So even when using fiat money, what was being traded was gold stored in the vault that the holder could claim back at any branch of that bank.
Fiat money as we know today is not money barely a currency, it's not even paper anymore. It's just a number on a ledger.

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shortstories

@Zeb @BowsacNoodle @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male

But they issued out more weight in gold in the total value promised in paper money than there was actual gold in the bank which was fraud

That is why I mentioned about simply changing the ink configuration on paper money to change it's trade value even though it was the same amount of paper

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Zeb 摆烂

@shortstories @BowsacNoodle @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
True, agree. The fraud was the problem and the bankers (specially central ones) should have been hanged on the spot.

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Thanksgiving Noodle
@Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male Tell me if you fellas know, what would happen if a larger foreign entity started hoarding your nation's currency if it was 1:1 backed by physical gold/silver? At what point would the effects be noticed? Suppose said non-fiat country used a note or something else impervious to forgery (humor me), but the guarantee was there and ledgered. What would happen to that nation and its stability? Would they or would they not create an alternative currency out of necessity? Could they actually print new notes if existing notes were lost? How would they know?
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Zeb 摆烂
Follow

@BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
I didn't get it. Why would a country with a gold-backed currency hoard a debased foreign fiat currency?
They would sell most of the foreign shit currencies since their currency is already stably anchored against gold.

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Thanksgiving Noodle
@Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male 'Goldtopia' or whatever we want to call the fictional country in this thought experiment, has issued notes and they're backed by e.g. gold. At some point, their notes become treated as a substitute for a commodity on the world market, do they not? Functionally, 'goldtopia' has a better version of GLD or any other gold based ETF, because theoretically they're not charging fees for this. How could they, after all?
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