Agnosticism is a lack of certainty, atheism is a lack of belief.

I don’t see how “atheism” is “lack of belief“ - as the word clearly means “not-God-ism”.

Most atheists actually believe in God; they just hate him. They never rail against Allah, Buddha, Lord Ganesh, etc... but they've got plenty of venom for Yahweh & Jesus Christ.

I think "American Christianity" has had a lot to do with that problem.

While I’m no Protestant, the general “tone and timbre” of American Christianity, while starkly divided, was actually doing pretty darn bangin at ordering societies up until the 20th Century

It's fundamentalism. There was at least some understanding that religion and science could reasonably coexist with accomodation, and then the Red Scare happened, the Dulles brothers got the bright idea to weaponize religion, and we've been in backslide ever since.

People don't want to listen to it man.

Even when explaining the Jews - the Jews WROTE THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Do you not think it's reasonable to ask where they got this information and how they decided upon it?

But they never look into how the Jews do things. And consider it all "divine" when it's not. It was a bunch of Jews sitting around arguing until they all decided someone had won the argument. The entire jewish religion starts out with Abraham arguing with god and "winning the argument".

This is the basis for their whole religion - this is your old testament. It has nothing to do with divine beings from the sky.

Even if it were true that the OT were ahistorical (a claim I highly doubt), it misses the point entirely.

The OT was written centuries before the Incarnation of Christ, and was positively stuffed with Messianic Prophecy that wasn’t fulfilled until hundreds of years after all the authors had died. No merely-human agency at any level could possibly pull that off. That’s its actual significance

Of course it can be pulled off.

That's like saying "That last domino can't possible fall just because someone pushes over the first domino."

That’s not at all what it’s like; nobody human could possibly have steered events like the God-Man being born in a specific town, to a specific virgin. One doesn’t get to decide things like that about their own birth.

Yeah, they did, because these are narratives being presented within the context of things the narrators could not have witnessed.

Yeah I don’t know what to tell you. Shepherds and peasants and fishermen don’t really have a lot of ability to steer the sorts of narratives that rulers pay to have written down

That would presuppose the lack of a pre-existing oral tradition, which given that the apostles are mostly working-class illiterates, would dismantle the concept of apostolic tradition. I'll trust that's not what you meant to do, because that would be blasphemy to Orthodoxy.

Pretty sure we’re talking past each other; I’m referring to OT Messianic Prophecy

Which came from a bunch of Kabbalah Jews - which 'word for word' come out of the Torah.

So you might want to get interested in how they decided what was in the Torah, and what they mean by "God"

I’m not sure I understand why you’re claiming to know so much about “Kabbalah” being sourced “word-for-word” from the “Torah”. Are you an authority on jewish mysticism ?

I never said that, reread it.

I called them "Kabbalah Jews"

I didn't say it was sourced from the torah, I said the OT was.

And I'm reasonably well versed in some of the Kabbalah, enough to know it's a system, and that yeah, you can engineer systems to fall like dominos as you see fit.

So if the OT was sourced from the Jews, you might want to work out how they came about those things. And it was because of the arguments the rabbis use to do everything they do.

This is a fun discussion and I’ll get back to it when I get the chance; not blowing it off or anything 😆

No never talk to me or my son again.

So please set me straight if I’m missing something. You’re arguing roughly that:

The Messianic Prophecies of the OT are an elaborate, kabbalistic sort of shell-game, with the Gospel writers penning their “fulfillment” in a largely fictional account around a man being called “Jesus Christ”.

That this was the ultimate aim of the writers of the specific Prophecies - to which they employed many tricks and puns in order to project their intention centuries into the future, where they figured they’d be “unlocked”.

Am I missing anything here ?

I don't know about the bible itself - probably so - I know writing can manifest these things in people.

However, through Kabbalah you can harness energy in particular ways to use to manipulate people, yes. And the Kabbalah is itself a macrocosmic system of logic as well.

This is where you get your Nostradamus's, etc. It's not magical, it's logical.

Like, in retrospect, if we created electricity, would AI become the logical conclusion?

Keep in mind they created the movie Metropolis (with the thinking robot) back in the early 1900's. Is this not a logical conclusion we could surmise from actions taken in the past?

Kabbalah is the same thing but on a very human level. I'm sure there's tonnes of it I know little about, but that's the way it is supposed to work.

Okay, I’m not going to deny any of that, at all. I’m totally open to the possibility that Isaiah, say, was “forecasting” certain things through “kabbalistic” word-and-number play - which the Gospel Writers seven-hundred or so years later “decoded” - illuminating them as to how properly to ”fulfil the Prophecy” with their fictional account of the God-Man Jesus Christ. Sure, why not ?

So, by now, because it’s already been “decoded”, it should be pretty easy to find a few examples, right ? Do you happen to know of any ? Sincere question: what was the specific forecast and how was it fulfilled ?

Surely there must be many of these. In fact I know of a few off the top of my head.

It's not just word and number play.

It is in some ways - very biblical.

God is within you and all around you. <- it takes this very seriously.

If god is logic, why not do the logic inside yourself? This is the root of Kabbalah.

It's not some devil worship or something. I wouldn't suggest that kind of thing.

It's certainly not Christian - I'll give you that. But this is also why I had a rant the other week about my suspicious nature of Hitler and was talking about inflection points - I'm talking about the logic of it all.

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Numerology is not logical for physics and chemistry predictions

Numerology does not enable you to understand what will happen based on physics

Numerology is a language to send secret messages to specific individuals that know the code without the rest of the public that sees the message understanding the intended meaning

Yeah I've never gotten into numerology.

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How can you claim to know so much about the Kabballah but so little about numerology

Are you telling me the Kabballah is nkt full of numerology

I don't DO Kabbalah, but I've been a victim of it, and read up on it and understand both from being a target and what I've read on it.

I don't practice it.

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What would anyone "do" with it? Isn't it just some kind of jewish mysticism?

As far as I can tell, kabbalah is just one of many in the jews’ bag of tricks to hoodwink the gullible goyim

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I do not think there is any scientific evidence for it doing anything at all.

You mean kabbalah ? Yeah I don’t take it any more seriously than ponzi schemes or multi-level marketing.

This is what frustrates me.

You guys all want to believe in the "ooga booga", some magical mystical stuff that can't be explained...

The moment someone tells you it's the system that most of the people WHO RULE THE PLANET RIGHT NOW are in one way or another fucking with - you're like "Oh no that's just silly"

The same symbol system written on the back of your money for 150 years or more. The same people who the Jews are in bed with...for a thousand years.

All your founders were freemasons, Crowley was a freemason, many of these Jews are freemasons. You'd rather believe in bohemian grove than believe something outside your precious pride will allow.

Yeah that can't possibly be it, because that would mean having to rethink some things.

I believe because I believe - isn't a belief, it's a cope.

I think it’s a complicated way of signaling in group membership and communicating in the open without normal people noticing. I don’t think there Is a secret language that lets you alter reality. I do think they are served by demons occasionally though.

Oh so Demons are real.

But language that can change the context of your beliefs are not?

Psalm 13:20 "He who walks with the wise will become wise, but the companion of fools will be destroyed."

Jesus was destroyed along with all his followers.
Which is wisdom?

Are the wise, simply the Evil from the point of view of those who would be destroyed by their own inaction or action?

Surely the followers of anyone will take on the traits of those they follow. How wise then the followers of the wise? Are they not simply the lucky?

I’m not sure I follow where you’re going with this one; yes, demons exist; yes, most language that exists holds the capacity to change the context of beliefs - which is a big part of how it works.

Can you photograph a demon then? Because the Catholic church won't do it.

Everyone would just start converting all over the world with a little video of a demon or exorcism or something.

Thanks for your attention to this matter.

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This is the way. There is no empirical evidence of anything supernatural such as demons.

What pro-demon people can do, is to retreat to a psychological definition, but then you might just as well call it "mental illness".

People of all ethnicities and cultures have been reporting strange encounters with malevolent spirits for all of recorded history. Millions upon millions of people down through the ages. I just can't believe that they were all nutz.