@shortstories @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis You can do the exact same thing to a Wrestler who's fixated on taking you down. If anything, they're easier to stuff.

@bigmattoidchimpin @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis
There is a difference between stand up & ground fighting jujitsu schools

I believe if you only learn one stand up fighting is better

In stand up you try to get the person to the ground without going to the ground yourself

In ground fighting like brazzilian jujitsu they often try to go down to the ground with their opponent putting them in greater danger against multiole attackers

In wrestling going to the ground means losing making it better

@shortstories @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis Well, Boxers never go to the ground.

@bigmattoidchimpin @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis

Both boxing and wrestling would be better for self defense than brazillian jujitsu because of it's fixation with intentionally going to the ground when you do not need to

Wrestlers however would usually be better than boxers at avoiding being put down at the ground by another person

I believe brazzillian jujitsu has some value but not as much value as wrestling, boxing and kickboxing

@shortstories @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis You're watching YouTube videos depicting individual discipline competition, then comparing and contrasting like it's that old show "Deadliest Warrior."

Now you're trying practice Jewry with your Judo interpretation, "it does have a ground-fighting stage." Wrestling has a ground-fighting stage too. Judo is not majority ground-fighting, and never was. The advantage that Judo has over wrestling is that wrestlers can't do a judo throw, and a judo throw into concrete is a beautiful thing. Also, that bullshit you said about jiu-jitsu in re holding people down applies to wrestling more.

@bigmattoidchimpin @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis

If you take point sparring you can practice kick boxing like skills with reduced risk of injury

Taekwondo and Karate also have one step sparring drills without as great a risk of concussion

The problem is they will waste class time teaching Kata which are not as much a time effective way to learn self defense as one step sparring drills

They may also waste time making you memorize combinations of punches and kicks in a specific order

@shortstories @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis I don't acknowledge Karate and Taekwondo as martial arts relevant to fighting. They're essentially not. There's a reason why in the early 90's there was a Tiger Schulmann's Karate on every corner in America and now they don't exist. In fact, they haven't existed as the McDojo for a very long time.

@bigmattoidchimpin @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis

I think if Karate and Taekwondo only taught one thing the one step sparring drills they would be a good way to learn self defense without as much risk of injury as kickboxing

Kickboxing would still be better for self defense but that would come at an increased risk of injury

@shortstories @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis Also, Judo > all in this discussion.

@bigmattoidchimpin @Jens_Rasmussen @Hyperhidrosis

Judo does have a ground fighting stage from books on judo I read but treats it differently than brazzilian jujitsu

Judo also changes rules frequently

The benefit of wrestling over judo is the techniques work on people without a judo uniform to grab hold of

The benefit of the uniform is protection from skin disease

Also you would learn how to defend against someone grabbing your winter coat which you would not learn in wrestling uniforms