@Tfmonkey The ultimate problem is that people believe their thoughts, particularly thoughts like, "Something is wrong and needs to be fixed." But solving these sorts of ultimate problems is more a Zen issue than a political one.
@DoubleD Well, it gets a little tricky here. There's a lot of folks who would be "one right way" religionists in another culture who bandwagon onto the progressive religion. So, yes.
But the philosophy behind progressivism is all about treating all ways of being and living as equal. Their constant thread is about the ignorance of traditional forms of "one right way" thinking (tradcons, authoritarianism, and religion), they just don't speak about it in their own ranks.
Btw, this is why Libertarianism is a better system than either the traditional conservatism popular among religious folks or the socialism of the left. It recognizes there's multiple ways to live, but that some are wiser than others (and those are the ones that will succeed).
Tradcons want to force "the right way" and so fuck over freedom. Progressives think all ways are equal and are therefore delusional. Libertarians have transcended that dialectic and incorporate the best of both.
Your average progressive, as dumb as they are, is thinking on a higher level than your average Christian, Jew, or Muslim.
The average religious person believes there's "one right way." They can't solve the problem of multiple interpretations, except with force or shaming.
Progressives at least recognize multiple ways. They're just too dumb to take the next step in realizing some are wiser than others. They think they're all equal. But at least they're not arguing there's only one right way.
@basedbagel @UncleIroh It's not just silly, it's clearly not something you actually, literally experience.
You can see a table, you can touch a table, you can think about a table. It shows up in multiple senses (I'm including thoughts as a sense here - you have a conscious experience of them the same way). God is not something you see, not something you touch...God is only something that appears mentally. We call things that only appear mentally "imaginary."
@UncleIroh @basedbagel You're missing the point. The point is that there's as many interpretations of Christianity as there are Christians. If Christianity was INHERENTLY patriarchal, there couldn't even be a feminist or liberal Christianity. But there clearly is, so it's not inherently patriarchal, just...historically so.
@SuperSnekFriend Alright, you're clearly far more interested in simply trading insults rather than anything interesting or productive, so I'm going to just block you.
@SuperSnekFriend Your "logic lesson" is unnecessarily nitpicky. It's literally an affirming the consequent fallacy.
If {become Christian Nation}, then {ban bad things}.
To {ban bad things},
then must {become Christian Nation}.
You're being retardedly nitpicky because I introduced the word "should." Even if not affirming the consequent it's fallacious either way.
If this is a straw man, then explain why we specifically need to be Christian, because that problem remains open.
@SuperSnekFriend I'm not a secular humanist. If you're going to criticize me for misrepresenting your beliefs then the least you can do is understand mine.
I have a basic understanding of Christian thought, thank you. Please stop insulting me and address an actual point I made, otherwise this is just really tedious and unfun.
@BobRoss @SuperSnekFriend You're clearly not interested in a productive conversation and so I'm just blocking you.
@BobRoss @SuperSnekFriend You guys are such good Christians.
Like, this sort of reprehensible "gang up on the non-Christian" kind of behavior is just MORE reason to reject your religion.
Your religion claims to be based on an objective morality, but it doesn't even produce good people. It produces hate filled partisans that shit post and aren't even creative about it.
I mean, if you're going to shit post, you can at least be funny. Just calling someone a faggot isn't really even funny.
@branman65 @SuperSnekFriend What a...Christian...response.
The problem with modern day Christianity is it simply doesn't provide a good and convincing reason to believe it...which is exactly what's happening here.
@SuperSnekFriend Everything you just wrote is ad hominems and insults...and then somehow I'm the midwit? Address actual points rather than just insulting me please.
@basedbagel @UncleIroh You accuse me of not arguing in bad faith, but then turn around and say I'm arguing for moral relativism.
I've addressed your points. You're just so stuck in one mode you're not seeing how what I said addresses them. Christianity is not inherently patriarchal: early feminists made reference to a lot of NT scripture to justify their position.
Your entire argument rests on "my interpretation is correct and their's isn't." This is why Christianity is such a mess.
@basedbagel @UncleIroh Ok, you're clearly lacking in self-awareness and my original diagnosis of level 4 thinking is dead on. This confirms it.
That's not a straw man at all. You're saying that YOUR understanding of the Bible is correct (or maybe, your group's). Other groups say you're the one twisting the scripture. How do you determine who's right? An epistemology answering the question would be level 5 thinking.
Lacking awareness of this problem is really clear in what you're saying.
@UncleIroh @basedbagel But the bottom line I have with Christianity is that it's based on a bunch of metaphysical nonsense that's completely unnecessary. You can have a morality without it. In fact, the focus on the metaphysics really detracts from the whole thing.
Not only that, but there's superior options. Buddhism is based on the truth as you can see for yourself, not based on a "trust me bro" epistemology. There's simply superior options here.
@UncleIroh @basedbagel The second picture sort of makes my point. Christian values are so seeped into our culture that they have to be the foundation for all our current issues. They're too baked in not to be.
I don't really have a hate boner for Christianity. I love Bernadette Roberts and put her in my top 2 spiritual authors.
Look, I'm certainly indulging in some aggressive conversation tonight. I'll grant that. (continued)
@basedbagel @UncleIroh "There are no versions of Christianity.
There is scripture and there are humans who twist words to serve their own ends as they have done from antiquity. "
And don't tell me you're not saying there's a "right way," because that's exactly what this quote is saying. "My group's interpretation of the Bible is the CORRECT one. Other people are twisting words."
It's so ludicrously lacking in self-awareness.
@basedbagel @UncleIroh This is simply low level thinking. You think there's a "right way" to interpret Christianity and a "wrong way." But what determines the correct way? The people that say there's a right way?
This is the entire problem with this conversation and why it's REALLY tedious for me. You're stuck in Blue/level 4 Spiral Dynamics thinking. For every "right way" you have, another group has their "right way."
@basedbagel @UncleIroh You're losing patience because my points are completely countering everything you say but you're not seeing it. You're seeing YOUR version of Christianity: Christianity de jure. You're seeing its history through this bias, rather than seeing Christianity de facto, as it is. Christians, as they are, pick and choose what they want to follow. They justify progressivism through "love your neighbor." How much of the OT to follow is an argument as old as Christianity itself.
Joined Sep 2022
