If people could be responsible for themselves, no government would be necessary.
If people require government to be responsible for them, they will be ruled by those made responsible.
You cannot elect a government to be responsible for the people, while the people retain their authority. That is why democracy is a joke, and why it can only be maintained via deceit and illusion.
Responsibility and authority go together. To sever the two is to invite destruction and tyranny in equal measure.
@Tfmonkey Shouldn't government provide a system for redress? Infrastructure i.e. roads, fire, police, post office? Isn't it reasonable that in the absence of a government, a government will naturally form?
I can't remember where I heard this argument.
@sardonicsmile @Tfmonkey The argument is that a natural system of voluntary governance is not equivalent to the concept of government we hold today.
What differentiates between a government and a regular co-operation "corporation being a legal construct created by a state to protect investors." being enforcing a monopoly on violence.
Who ever claims and maintains the exclusive right to violence is the government.
@apopheniac @Tfmonkey Is it fair to say that: ultimately, violence must be used, as a tool, to ensure cooperation? In a society/culture of self aware, educated, rational men, cooperation can be easily reached. but there are outliers. What about intrusion from other societies/cultures who do not adopt these values? Unless there is a designated body, for defense, civilized societies will be easily overcome. I remember the "Operation Atlantis" project that failed: The Libertarian island..
@sardonicsmile @apopheniac ideally we can talk things out rationally and people can be reasonable. However, we live in a world of scarce resources where not everyone can have what they want, and what they want often comes at someone else's expense, and how do we allocate said resources and decide who gets what?
When all else fails, use violence.
@Tfmonkey @sardonicsmile @apopheniac @basedbagel @37712 @VeganMGTOW
I'd hazard a guess that most of us here take these things seriously and at least try to live responsibly, especially financially.
TFM, how about extending that further and doing a bit on what practical options this community have for people at different stages, say having a clear $1k, $5K, $10K, $20K or $50K?
It could funnel people to your MMM but also just be useful to hear what a general menu in 2023 looks like.