I was listening to "A World Without Men" by Aaron Clarey, and while I am enjoying most of it, he seems to believe in no uncertain terms that the male sex drive is responsible for civilization because males made the transaction that males make with females (i.e. protection and provision for sex).
I do not believe that the males wanting to make a deal with females of resources for sex is why civilization came about.
> I do not believe that the males wanting to make a deal with females of resources for sex is why civilization came about
Well that's a belief you'll probably need to change since there's great evidence to prove it, or at the very least not disprove that connection.
I'm partway through a huge tome of a book called "Sex and Culture" by JD Unwin who published it in 1934. It's a serious piece of scholarship spanning 5000 years, 6 civilzations and 80 tribes ..
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I agree with point 1 and 2.
My only issue is that while I do believe MOST men are motivated to improve because of women, it doesn't account for ~10-20% of us.
1. Gays aren't less ambitious
2. Alot of eccentric people that moved society forward like Sir Issac Newton were virgins.
3. As an ex-nerd we all knew we weren't going to get any brownie points with females because we made the honor roll or because our code was clean 😂
We just did it for its own sake.▶️
We're not talking about the margins of modern day America here, we're talking about measuring the broad effect of male-female relations across all major civilzations for the last 5000 years.
>we're talking about measuring the broad effect of male-female relations across all major civilzations for the last 5000 years.
I agree as i stated earlier.
I watched the video and I was quite excitedly agreeing as I had no idea anyone had done any formal research to verify RP talking points.
I only have 2 sight quibbles near the end.
1. He thinks this shitshow is salvageable. I respect his optimism but I'm disagreeing with my feet and leaving the west anyway.▶️
His optimism was simply that, an unfounded hope. I too do not think this is salvageable.
My 2nd quibble is more confusion than disagreement.
"If a society wants to maintain a high level of culture we must emancipate women WITHOUT compromising absolute monogamy."
This is a contradictory sentence as you can't have women be monogamous and free.
You MUST take their rights away.
But I get he probly wanted to end the video on a positive note and I don't think he'd have a very long career if he said #TWRA lol
Solid video overall. Onto the article
Agreed. That statement is pure self-contradiction.
Egalitarianism has infected everything, it's the West's Holy Cow, the lie that won't die in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
That's a great one-liner I'm stealing that!
Another thing is while the article is superb I HATE how academics talk.
He could have cut it in 1/2 and still got the point across but its all good I learned a couple new words.
Also I'm not sure how much I trust a survey asking women about sexual partners. But since the results align with my bias and observable reality I tacitly agree with it.
Alright I'm logging off now but this was good reading.
Too bad I can't tell LITERALLY anyone offline about it lol
Just keep it in your back pocket for when someone thinks the idea sounds insane.
You now have a legit study to refer them too that will be extremely difficult for them to refute or scoff at.
The problem I have with this take is that it has undertones of:
"Yes women are in general lazy, uninspired and useless to building civilztion outside of child birth.
But al those guys did it for pussy anyway therefore women are JUST that awesome! because without them men would have no muse and accomplish nothing. major"
When in reality in a world without women progress likely would have been made regardless (though I'll admit probly not as quickly )
You're shooting from the hip in your usual emotional contrary way.
At the very least watch the video, read the article and gain just the slightest bit of insight on a man's lifes work before offering your big brain hot takes.
I think something must have been lost in translation over text.
I was referring to how Clarey explains our current state of affairs, I wasn't disagreeing at all as I agreed with everything you said.
Now as for the video...
@amerika @DoubleD @Zeb @basedbagel
Yes his name is mentioned in that article. I wish his work was more well known and discussed.
It seems as if Aaron Clarey has used Unwin as a major source for his recent book, and I'm totally down with that.
A fun side fact: Unwin died the same year as Oswald Spengler, another great scholar who also did a massive cross-civilizational study for his book "The Decline of the West".
@amerika @Zeb All these points made in your discussions, @UncleIroh and @basedbagel, were reasonable, and I cannot disagree with them being factors in the construction of civilization.
I take issue with Aaron's pronouncement that access to sex is the sole genesis of civilization.
@amerika @Zeb @UncleIroh @basedbagel
...
It is not the sole cause as evidenced by the geniuses and pioneers I mentioned earlier.
I argue that sex is one end which falls under the larger set of the satisfaction of uneasiness that Mises discussed in "Human Action" as this accounts for all males' drives.
@amerika @Zeb @UncleIroh @basedbagel I appreciate you bringing up Unwin. I'll have to have a read of his work.
@DoubleD @amerika @Zeb @basedbagel
No worries. I'm just down for the discussion and am glad you brought the subject up.
Which audience do you think benefits the most from Aaron Clarey's latest book?
@UncleIroh @amerika @Zeb @basedbagel I think it's those who are just graduating from the Sandman level and Ex PUAs. They need the next step that justifies for the common man what they've learned from the entrance speakers. If they went straight to TFM or Marcus, they'd not have the deeper understanding of themselves that only comes from ascending the stairs of redpill content through experiencing it themselves.
@DoubleD @UncleIroh @amerika @Zeb @basedbagel Yeah I think Clarey leaves out the dominance instinct, women are just another resource that men compete for. Men naturally want to acquire the best resources, whether it be food, farm land, territory, fresh water, hunting grounds etc and dominate/compete over other males to obtain the best. Civilization as a whole is just men cooperating with each other on a broad scale to fortify their resources, and shield it from other threats/competition.
@I_AmTheKnight @DoubleD @amerika @Zeb @basedbagel
Yes, from an evolutionary perspective a civilization could be defined as a mechanism for enhancing the survival & reproduction of human populations across generations, so females are definitely an imporant resource for that to succeed.
By that definition we have failed since no Western country can reproduce itself.
Where we go from here is anyones guess, but whatever succeeds has to happen around new communities of shared identity/values.
@UncleIroh @I_AmTheKnight @amerika @Zeb @basedbagel Indeed. After we're long gone, humanity will toddle on as it tries new ways of organizing, growing, and killing itself. Such is the way of humanity as we learn the ways of the Universe.
@DoubleD @I_AmTheKnight @amerika @Zeb @basedbagel
Thing is, the WEF/CCP vision of a technological utopia where AI rules over humans and we are treated like dumb farm animals has a non-zero chance of coming true.
Their plan is to dispense with ground-up shared identity/values in favor of total top-down control, and they'll use a mix of depop eugenics and soma to do it. Basically a complete takeover of evolution.
Problem is, women eat that shit up all day long which makes it that much harder.
@DoubleD @I_AmTheKnight @amerika @Zeb
Tbh I don't fear the WEF/CCP. They're clearly running out of time
I fear the desperate normies.
Evolution is always a possibility.
This is why it has been opposed for at least 2k years.
@DoubleD @Zeb @basedbagel
.. and his conclusions are that:
1. the quality of any civilzation can be measured by the extent to which female sexuality is controlled by men (i.e. from absolute patriarchy to polgamy/polygyny).
2. that civilzational collapses are directly connected to point 1.
For a summary of his work I can recommend the following:
Article: https://arctotherium.substack.com/p/review-of-j-d-unwins-sex-and-culture
Video: https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=nF9NPouGhlk
Unwin's book: https://a.co/d/7B5Pq14
This is likely where Clarey got it from.